Status #16040

People have been requesting I comment on the Zen Gardner [...]


Currumbin Valley, Queensland
via The Full Circle Project
People have been requesting I comment on the Zen Gardner issue, so OK, here goes....

While I most certainly have questions, and am in no way defending him, without proof of guilt I will not be jumping on the bandwagon to defame someone, nor will I be participating in any kind of trial by media, and nor will I automatically assume guilt by association. I have on occasion met other ex COG members who were in no way involved in pedophilia. I would like to see zen have a chance to publicly address the issue in an open manner without all the sensationalistic claims, rampant speculation and mass hysteria. To witness the witch hunt that has descended upon him and the trial by media that has ensued has quite frankly been appalling and also very sobering, as it show just how quickly people are prepared to thrust all logic and reason aside and simply degrade to the mentality of a lynch mob.

People that I have spoken to that have been associated with the COG have told me they were never sexually molested, the abuse came more in the form of slave labor as many were forced to work very hard, losing most of their teenage years and that the sexual abuse though promoted by the leader was mostly isolated and not the main focus of the cult. Naturally it is what the MSM latched onto and blew up as the main focus as is their way but that is another thing that disturbs me inasmuch as, all of the independent/alternative media people know full well that the MSM lies and distorts everything and yet in this case they are so willing to accept every word a face value. What is that about?

So looking at Don/Zens case... There are 2 distinct possibilities with Don/Zen's involvement with the Children of God.

One, He is indeed the hideous deceptive monster his attackers are portraying him to be. This is concept any reasonable person would perhaps question due to the many inspiring articles he has written... but OK, he could just be that slick, and write all that incredibly inspiring anti establishment stuff to simply fool us all... I can consider that as a possibility

And, Two that he is not.

Looking at things rationally and objectively, there may just be a possibility that Zen joined the cult as a naive young man looking for a family, got caught up in the whole path of Jesus/word of the bible thing and even when he began to hear of instances, he just hung in there and truly believed he could make a difference the way Jesus did... this is an insular cult mentality remember... maybe he tried and tried and then just left broken and disillusioned and struck out on his own to try to make a difference another way, and maybe, just maybe, he never went public with it all because he simply didn't have anything he was personally involved with to expose.... is this scenario true? I have no idea, but it surely must be considered just as possible as the first option... so is there anything to cause us to lean either way?

Well, I have just been quietly watching from the sidelines these last couple of weeks as this has grown exponentially across the internet with almost every man and his dog now offering their highly informed two cents worth on this issue - and also many obviously paid trolls just itching at this chance to further divide and discredit the independent media. And since the big 'expose' and subsequent lynching of zen began, I have not yet seen one single abuse victim come forth to implicate him. In fact their silence on this issue so far is quite literally deafening and still continues screaming at me like an elephant in the living room... in fact All I have seen relating to zen from COG "insiders" so far is a post from one woman who remembers Zen from COG and said how she loved visiting zens family because he was such a kind caring father and she wished her dad was like that.

So, to be perfectly rational, at this stage, either of the above scenarios could well be true. Zen could be the monster people are claiming he is. Or he could have just been a man caught in a cult thinking he really could make a difference because he believed he had Jesus his heart... Cults do that sort of shit to peoples heads... ALL the time

So... which one is it... Do you know?

If so please tell me how, because I would very much like to be privy to what ever information you are basing your judgment on.

Personally I think people should consider both options before judging, consider what evidence they are basing that judgment on and consider as I previously said, that if he is indeed guilty as charged, the please bring forth the victims he abused and have them now speak and gain their healing. All I know so far on this issue is that the man I have met, whose eyes I have looked into is a kind caring and compassionate individual and there is no way he should be receiving the trial by mob mentality he is being subject to without both possibilities first being rationally considered without judgment.

Frankly the way this issue has been handled has seriously caused me to question the future of this species, it really has. People have too eagerly embraced one possibility, based on MSM reports, without ever, even for a moment, considering the other. They have embraced their altruistic ego selves and set themselves as judge, jury and executioner simply because it satisfies their blood lust and inner frustrations to do so.

Even more disturbing to me is that Zen confided in a healer. This indicates to me he was looking for healing and a way to deal with this issue and bring his past into light in a way that it could be opened and viewed without the hysteria the 3 words Children of God conjures up. This information needed to come to the surface, most definitely, but most certainly not the way it was done, and for someone claiming to be a healer to have been so based in egoic judgment, and acted in such a toxic manner without first considering both sides and all possibilities, is just as disturbing as the unbridled hatred and judgment this "healer" has now caused to ripple through the collective consciousness via the vitriolic judgment she has now passed on to others.

I would like to get to the truth of this matter but that will only happen when its approached openly and rationally. Unfortunately, there is little likelihood of that ever happening now as people have already made their minds up. After all, who needs any real facts, and why bother to examine things from all angles - when you can have a good lynching
Didgevillage
Even if Zen was a monster (which I do not believe), ALL men are monsters in varying degrees. Come on. Folks. Quit the hysteria
Sunday 28 August 2016, 01:46:52
Stefan V
Personally, I know nothing about this case. I like Zen and always have.

What I am worried about is the willingness for people to believe slander. This is how our enemies work to divide us.
Sunday 28 August 2016, 05:45:48
[deleted user]
I think he needs to explain how and why he rose to a high position and presumably power within this cult. As a tax payer I contribute to the mass slaughter of innocent people including children through war and the general inhumanity of our world situation. For that I am guilty. Am I complicit in murder?
Sunday 28 August 2016, 10:54:40
[deleted user]
Max Igan nailed it. "Frankly the way this issue has been handled has seriously caused me to question the future of this species, it really has."

And then his other point about that 'healer' who Zen confided in because he was looking for a solution. Like he said, disturbing, but having myself had personal experience with a 'healer' who herself was had past unresolved trauma, and was rather judgemental. These types are worse than useless.

I have to question myself if I should keep going on support this Full Circle Project. Nothing to do with this project, its a great idea to get people together and brainstorm, but to what end when the so-called 'awake' community display the same group-think, pack-attack mentality without thinking critically?
Sunday 28 August 2016, 12:53:44
AwakenYaMind
thank you very much for your wise words in addressing this situation- brilliantly articulated as usual i suppose, but i don't wan't to come off as a yes-man.. it's just good to see some real sentiments laid out objectively amidst the over-reactive accusations.. die hard zen fans might be heart broken, but life goes on and each person still have themselves to look within for the truth.. it's not like they gotta be jumping to conclusions anyway, but yea, there's trolls and other muck-rakers striving to keep these people torn.. if they're still not operating from the heart and quick to refute things and pass off judgement, then they still have a lot of work to do (within).. they cannot do that with zen, icke, igan, watt, ect... what do the personal lives of these researchers have to do with individuals' direct experience and consciousness of the truth and light of creation?? the awakened community is full of people who are AWAKE, but lack knowledge of self and the true reality of existence and vibration beyond 3D... but i got love for them regardless of illusionary differences and differing opinions.. people want to consider themselves awake, but have they gained the self-empowering knowledge and vibration to see themselves as their own savior? are they living in'lakesh and BEING the kind of positive change they wish to see in the world?

I hope zen has his fair chance to set the record str8 and get the proper healing he seeks/needs...
i don't really follow him much at all, but he resonates positively for me as far as the articles of his i've read..

thanx again max, i hope that people are wise enough not to throw flack your way due to your association with this man
Sunday 28 August 2016, 15:18:01
[deleted user]
Thank Max for your clarity on this issue...... I am saddened and not surprised by the venomous responses to Zens sharing. facilitated by a few who's role is ???????? Divided and conquer...... In this polarized reality that we live in divisions are the name of the game it appears.... Is it true that Louise Sutton is taking a openly aggressive and threatening stance against Zen. If that is the case I will not be participating in the Full Circle Project further..
Sunday 28 August 2016, 16:10:23
Lula
Hi Rob and thank you for that question: "Is it true that Louise Sutton is taking an openly aggressive and threatening stance against Zen" ? Well, of course I have asked her(myself) and it is without a shadow of a doubt, and indeed without ANY sign of shadows, an absolute NO. that is so far from my nature, and people that know me, know this too, including ZG/DF.... here is the post on Zen's site, as a footnote to the comment from Max also posted here on the FCP site. P.S. From Zen: The Full Circle Project team administered by Louise Sutton, a former “friend” and associate, has been prompted by her to take an openly aggressive and threatening stance against me. Max has since discontinued his involvement in the project which he himself initiated.
Since this is a) untrue and b) could trigger more confusion among those groups of good hearted people looking to collaborate and build trust, I asked Max for his response. He wrote: have messaged zen... hey zen, I would really like to see some healing for everyone and with that in mind I would ask you to please remove the comment regarding louise and fcp from the end as it will only serve to damage the project

I only post this to illustrate that all is not as it seems (well, nothing new here ) and a touch of true Zen from a true Master might serve us at this point. “To enter the Buddha Way is to stop discriminating between good and evil and to cast aside the mind that says this is good and that is bad.”
― Dōgen, A Primer Of Soto Zen

I also feel to say that i am totally open to answering any valid questions people have about this, the first of many further revelations i am certain, to the best of my ability. My intentions and actions have always been and remain pure of heart and my main objective is to bring the shadows to the light so they can be identified, purified and healed. This is the big picture, and why we see and feel so many triggered emotional reactions to anything which touches on the broad spectrum termed "Child Abuse" Is not everything currently a form of child abuse? I am not alone in seeing the Bigger Bigger Bigger picture and the opportunity these events are offering us. This is where my attention is being placed. The Child is Key. I do hope this answers your question Rob, and if i can give further depth then i am happy to do so, but do not want to spend too much precious time on this particular "witch hunt" as we are having good, honest and sincere response from those wanting to participate in the think-tank and task-force to STOP child abuse. Blessings, courage and honesty especially in these times of revelation. There is more on its way, so myai suggest stay calm and let's not engage on the emotional bandwagon. We are all better than this. Louise
Monday 29 August 2016, 11:11:00
Didgevillage
Lula
Let's drop that child abuse thing because it is no issue for now.
Not that it is not serious, but it's secondary to our most burning issue of fighting the NWO and finding an alternative to the current bank-controlled slavery economy.
There are all kinds of child abuse; physical abuse may be most obvious but there are more subtle, unseen, spiritual abuse on the soul level, if you will.
Monday 29 August 2016, 11:36:20
Lula
well spotted and exactly the point Didgevillage. Does it not actually underLIE ALL the above-mentioned NWO etc stuff & Nonsense? Hurt people hurt people ant the fabric of all this tyranny is based on a true value system not being seen ie that of valuing each individual for who they truly are from day one (if not before) and seeing their true value. Not in money or in government or in anything else.... in seeing each other and ourselves as we truly are. THIS aspect of child 'abuse' among other forms, is at the heart of everything and if we are successfully disconnected from Source at point of entry by traumatic conception/birth and all the following.... what then? Do consider coming to this weeks hangout D, as it would be helpful to debate these valid points. The term "Child Abuse" as used here is not being seen in its full depth and spectrum i feel.... vamos a ver (lets see)
Monday 29 August 2016, 12:04:39
Stefan V
I agree, the big picture is that every child since the day it is born, is poisoned, physically, mentally, and spiritually. This poisoning continues day after day until by the age of majority, most people have failed to plant the seed of a soul, and live the remainder of their wretched lives as compliant slaves. That is child abuse on a scale of horror I can't stand to contemplate.
Tuesday 30 August 2016, 03:46:06
untamed
Many naïve young minds get caught up in the cult of the military , murder lame and destroy lives as part of a cult gang .... Nothing on the planet compares to the scale of this , yet no one pulls out names of past members of such order follower cults and holds them to task ! Some X members evolve move on and become soap boxers against the establishment they were once apart of .. others become suicidal , while others remain mind trapped in the belief of the fore mentioned cult continuing to support it ..
I say all backgrounds are just that "backgrounds " for where people come from to evolve to where they are now ...
Zen has mounds of terrific input via articles and interviews shedding light on the many important topics , in a manor that highly suggests an enlightened awake mind ...
I for one don't really care where he came from , interesting as it might be only as a way projecting a time line or evolvement line from the past to now , other than it doesn't really matter , Zen is most definitely in my opinion a true peace warrior with a lot of the right awakened knowledge .....
Tuesday 30 August 2016, 17:03:52
Kartik
Well said.
Friday 3 February 2017, 17:06:28
Kartik
I seriously wanna know what Icke's gotta say about this....
Friday 3 February 2017, 17:06:48
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